Meet the Press interview with Bill Shorten

The following is a transcript from the Ten Network's Meet the Press Program interview with AWU National Secretary Bill Shorten.

PAUL BONGIORNO: You're on Meet The Press. On Friday, the Prime Minister and premiers agreed to differ on industrial relations. Mr Howard is determined to press on, using the corporations power of the constitution to create a national workplace system. The premiers are now talking more confidentially though of a High Court challenge. Keenly monitoring developments, National Secretary of the Australian Workers Union Bill Shorten. Welcome to the program, Mr Shorten.

BILL SHORTEN: Good morning, Paul.

PAUL BONGIORNO: Premier Carr thinks there may be scope for a successful High Court challenge. Is that the advice you're getting?

BILL SHORTEN: We're not holding our breath that a High Court challenge will work. I do think that the Howard Government ripping up the State systems is a mistake. And when you look at the success of economies like Queensland where they have a State system and good industrial relations, you do have to wonder why on earth is the Federal Government pursuing a campaign when the systems aren't broken.

PAUL BONGIORNO: So is that an admission that really there isn't much either the unions nor the Labor Party in Parliament can do about it?

BILL SHORTEN: No, it's probably a recognition that the High Court isn't necessarily the most worker-friendly jurisdiction we've seen in recent years. I think there's plenty that the union movement can do. The ACTU, Unions New South Wales and individual unions, we're planning a lot of community conversation. By that, I think a lot of people take for granted the conditions they get, when in fact it's unions who have been delivering for employees in Australia.

BRIAN TOOHEY: Mr Shorten, you've been highly critical of the proposed free trade agreement with China, because of the impact on jobs here. Do you think the Government's eagerness to go ahead with that agreement might be what's inhibiting it in terms of its dealings with the communist giant in relation to this person who wants political asylum, Mr Chen, who is obviously a very senior Chinese intelligence official?

BILL SHORTEN: The poor old Labor Party and poor old union movement. If Labor was in government and they were moving as slowly as the Federal Government is reported to be, that would be because obviously the Labor Party is run by secret communists. The real issue here is that I think it's capitalism which is intruding upon the treatment of Mr Chen. The obvious question here is if he has some information, why on earth don't we want to hear it? I do wonder if the China free trade agreement is just an excuse for the Prime Minister to help Woodside sell gas in China.

BRIAN TOOHEY: But the Labor Party now for a couple of decades has been strongly in favour of free trade agreements, in the end they backed the US free trade agreement. Why are you so opposed to the one with China?

BILL SHORTEN: Let's put a bit of precision into these terms. We're pro free trade and we're pro China but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be 100% sceptical about a rushed China free trade agreement. What is it that we're going to sell China in the future that we're not selling them now? And how many Australians are worth putting on the scrap heap just so we can help sell more iron ore or gas to China? I think that it's look before you leap. 100% scepticism is the way to approach this free trade agreement.

ALISON CARABINE: Mr Shorten, on an issue closer to home - tax cuts. You've often stated that there's nothing evil about tax cuts. Has Kim Beazley blundered in deciding to oppose this particular set of tax cuts announced in the budget?

BILL SHORTEN: I think tax cuts are good. I do think Australian workers pay more tax than some of their compatriots in other countries around the world. But for me it's a no-brainer. Kim Beazley's tax cuts propose $12 for people - most people. Whereas John Howard's tax cut propose $6 for most people. I think Kim Beazley's tax cuts are about putting a bit of balance into the system and ensuring everyone gets something out of the budget, rather than rewarding in an unbalanced fashion the top end.

ALISON CARABINE: But politically, hasn't he made a mistake in opposing or at least delaying these tax cuts? How can Labor ever hope to appeal to the great Australian middle ground if the headlines are "Labor opposes tax cuts"?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I think then one has to look through the headlines. The issue here is that Kim Beazley's proposed that the tax cuts be more equally distributed. And by the way, what's the point of John Howard's tax cuts when he's going to induct industrial relations warfare and rip up the safety net for people? Everything that he gives back with one hand he'll be taking with the other through unfair dismissal laws, taking away the right of people to be protected. I think that you've got to look at the whole package, and Beazley's closer to looking after people than Mr Howard.

BRIAN TOOHEY: The Victorian branch of the Labor Party is once more ruining the party's chances with its usual branch-stacking rows. Is possibly the one good thing to come out of the branch stacking is that you might get a seat in Parliament and become leader of the Labor Party?

BILL SHORTEN: (Laughs) I think what's good about any debate about the Labor Party at the moment is we're naturally frustrated. Not only have we lost four federal elections in a row but also we've now lost the Senate, which I think's going to have a bad effect on a whole lot of ordinary Australians. In terms of myself, I'm interested in being the Secretary of the AWU, you never rule anything out in the future, but in the meantime, I think what you're seeing is the Labor Party is really trying to work out how do we get the best raft of candidates so we can win an election. So, would you agree with Bob Hawke that a better calibre of Labor MP needs to be sent to Canberra, and is it the case that your own faction is looking at sweeping out a number of MPs who would be regarded as dead wood?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I don't want to make a whole lot of enemies before I have to, so I think that the federal caucus does have a bit of a go. But I do think you do need constant regeneration and obviously we need to be able to present the best group possible because we have to convince a whole lot of Australians in the middle of Australian politics that they can trust Labor to run the economy, that they can trust us on a range of issues. I do think that's possible, but part of the renewal will be getting some fresh blood into Canberra.

ALISON CARABINE: And that trust is not there amongst voters at the moment?

BILL SHORTEN: I think 47% of Australia trust us. The trick is to get to 50% plus 1. And I do think the Labor Party needs to constantly be regenerating its Parliamentary bloodline. That will happen and I have no doubt that will happen before the next election and Victoria will help make a contribution.

BRIAN TOOHEY: You seem very relaxed about it happening. But surely it is starting to get pretty urgent by now, four election losses in a row. I mean, do you have to do more than get new MPs in? How about at the very top, what about Mr Beazley, how's he going?

BILL SHORTEN: I'm a big supporter of Kim Beazley. I think he's exactly what we needed in January when he took over the leadership. I think he's right on the money when he says the Labor Party needs to be a good opposition not just a Government in waiting. We need to actually oppose, we need to be reviewing. No, I think you'll find across the union movement Kim Beazley's got a big range of support.

PAUL BONGIORNO: Do you think that Labor can win the next general election given the huge task ahead of it?

BILL SHORTEN: I think that Australian politics is a lot more volatile than it's ever been before. In the 1960s, perhaps 1% of people would be swinging voters and make up their mind during the campaign. Now, 30% of Australians make up their mind in the campaign, 15% in the last week. I think every election is winable.

PAUL BONGIORNO: OK, thank you very much for joining us today, Bill Shorten. And thanks to the panel, Alison Carabine and Brian Toohey. Until next week it's goodbye from Meet the Press.